Chats with Courtney: Helping Others

I made the above diagram to help explain the topic of our discussion:

Kyle: Courtney, I need you to spot check the logic behind this.
Courtney: Okay? What's the topic?
K: Helping people.
C: Oh, I like helping people!
K: Good, because I want your help. First off, is it fair to say that you can break people into two categories: Need help, or don't need help?
C: Sure that's basic.
K: What about can you also overlap those with: Want help and don't want help?
C: Sure.
K: is there anything I'm missing?
C: I don't think so. --I could be wrong but I don't think there are any outliers to this.
K: Ok, so where they overlap you get 4 categories of people: A) People who don't want help and don't need it. B) People who don't want help but need it. C) People who want help but don't need it, and D) people who want help and need help.  With me so far? (see diagram above)
C: Yes.
K: Well, this is the part I want you to really spot check to make sure I'm not missing anything: People who fall into category A, if you try to help them and they don't need nor want your help, they will probably resent you and maybe withdraw from you.
C: I can see that--You might find someone who is a pushover that avoids conflict, but by and large most people will probably do that.
K: And if you try to help someone in category B, who don't want your help but need it, then they might do the same thing--there is the potential that they'll change their mind after it's over, but they'll resent you the whole way and maybe withdraw from you and it will definitely change the relationship, but hopefully your help will improve their life and in time they will see it.
C: That sounds right. Particularly with friends I have had whose kids got into drugs and they had to do some drastic things in order to get their kid to get back on the right path. The kid resented them but it was for their own good...
K: --With category C, you can help these people, but they don't really need you to do it. They'll appreciate you, but when it comes down to it they are either letting you help them because they want you to feel integrated to their life, or because they are lazy.
C: That sounds like the best so far... minus that it's a drag if they are lazy.
K: Yes, I agree. That's the best of the four categories in my opinion but the potential is there that they are merely relying on you because they are too lazy to do it themselves.
C: Right...but what about the last category?
K: So category D... People who need help and want help. I think on the surface these sound like the ideal one, because when you help them, you are doing a good thing, plus they want your help and will appreciate you--BUT, the problem is that if you help them, then they never learn to do it themselves. They never learn to figure things out on their own and they become dependent on you into the future. After all, what motivation would they have to do it for themselves if they could get you to do it for them?
C: I agree with that...mostly. But I don't think EVERYONE would become dependent...some people naturally want to do things on their own, and they just need a little help in the present.
K: Possibly...but those people are far and few. In fact, the only person I know of who is that way is myself...and I'm not so sure that I'm ALWAYS that way.
C: Right...Well cool. This all makes sense to me so far. What prompted this?
K: I went through a bit of depression a week ago--actually, it was a month or two spiraling down into depression and a brief stint of depression when it all culminated--and it was all related to this topic. I just couldn't shake this feeling that people were taking advantage of me, or they weren't appreciating me enough or valuing me enough, or that they were becoming dependent on me and not giving me time to take care of myself and expecting too much from me, or when I'd try to help them because they needed help they'd resent me for it and withdraw from me and reject me. It wasn't a good feeling, and at the time I didn't have an objective perspective of this to make sense of it.
C: And you do now?
K: Yes. Now I realize a few things because of this: First, I realize that I shouldn't get involved with category A people--I already knew that, but it's easy to forget sometimes when you get lost in your mind. Second, I realized that if I intend to help category D people, I need to accept that there is a very real possibility that they will become dependent on me and that I will have to carry my load, plus their load--I can't hold out for them to suddenly not be dependent on me because it may never happen, and at times they may be ungrateful because they feel entitled. So if I intend to help people who need my help, I need to make sure that I am comfortable with helping them forever with that thing, and if not, then I won't help them.
C: That seems fair...though doesn't that become a little frustrating when you see people who need help but you can't help them because of that?
K: Absolutely! And that's the same for category B people--They don't want your help but they need it, and if I decide to help them then I have to accept that they will probably resent me, not be grateful for it, and may even end our friendship because of it--temporarily or permanently. --Or they could also become dependent on me with or without the resentment still there. Helping people who need it is a difficult thing for sure! I like what pitbull says "Ask for money, get advice, ask for advice, get money twice."
C: Which means...?
K: If you ask for money, people ought to just give you advice on how to make money, because if you give them money they keep coming back and they'll be ungrateful either way--ungrateful because you didn't give them waht they want and ungrateful because they start to feel entitled. Whereas if they come asking for advice on how to make money, you can be a little more liberal, give them advice, give them money to help get started, and then they can make money because they take the advice to heart.--money twice.
C: Oh, I get it. Cool.  What about the other category, what are you going to do about those?
K: Category C?... I have decided to do a situation check: if at the time I feel like helping them, I'll help them, if not I'll say no. --Mostly that is based on the situation of if I am busy doing something else.--I love to help people, and if they want my help and want to involve me in their life, then sure, I'll help them, do them favors, give them advice, etc etc. --If I like them that is. In fact, all of this is contingent on me liking the person, and I'll admit that I'm partial to people. I'm not going to help someone if I don't like them--I have to first find something about them I like, which is difficult with some people.
C: Kyle, you're so selfish.
K: No, I'm a very loving and giving person...if I like them. And I like and love more people than you might think.
C: I'm just kidding. I've seen you and the way you love. It's very free and warm.
K: That's why I went into a sort of depression though... At times I don't have control over who I love. I fell in love with a girl at the grocery store who I only talked to periodically and knew very little about, but I knew that I wanted her to get over the things she was going through--and I felt bad when I'd check out and could tell she was having a bad day.
C: I think you're just abnormally empathetic...Plus, like I said, you love freely and don't let things get in the way of loving--which is very admirable.
K: Thanks. So now that I am able to wrap my head around what is bothering me, I have a plan for how to resolve it. I know better in what situations to step in and help or give of myself, and in what situations I simply cannot help. --I'm okay with people being dependent on my sometimes--I'm able to get my needs met pretty quickly and so from that point I can help others in exchange for whatever...but with other things I definitely can't allow it to happen. Understanding this has made me a whole lot more at peace with life and feeling like I am in control again, which is great!
C: Good to hear! I love you Kyle, you're such a good friend and an inspiration. Thank you!




------------
Closing notes:
After writing out the conversation again, I realized something interesting: 
Loving people, giving of yourself, and helping other people is always going to be more drawback than good. You may never get thanked, you will either be sapped dry by their dependencies, or they will feel entitled to you. The only people who will consistently thank you and appreciate you are those who don't need your help--so you may face the thought that "you're not needed." But hey, that's okay! It's good actually. To not be needed and yet still wanted in their life is a wonderful thing. People who are fully independent and capable and yet want you in their life are the best lovers, trust me. They have no ulterior motives, and even if they are lazy, that's okay too because if you have the time and resources to spare, it's not really a burden on you, and if you don't then you can tell them to do it and persuade them to get off their lazy and do it. I like category C people.

Lessons learned from today

I'm exhausted of sorts.

I went to bed and woke up depressed this morning and it's been a real battle--the last couple months have been a battle--the last few years have been a battle and I broke down and hit that depressed point.

Right now, I feel fine--minus the mental/physical/emotional drain that depression has on a person, but I'm back to normal now. I know this. I'm back to normal and it's a good feeling.


But since I'm looking at this now in terms of being a battle, a battle that I ultimately won, I want to point out a few things I learned/realized from today and the last couple of weeks when it has been its worst:
1. The war isn't over. This is a battle, and victory came to me in terms of gaining greater understanding. To win the war, I'm gonna have to make some changes or at least position myself to where I can catch some "naturally falling fruit"
2. I'm not so crazy after all, because a few other people have admitted to me that they are this way as well. And it hit me that there are serveral songs that basically say exactly what I've been thinking today.
3. I have problems--but not really. My problems are insignificant. I'm a pretty cool cat, have my life in order--pay all my bills, have control over myself, don't have serious baggage (I can only think of two things people might say are my baggage, and this is one of them). I'm not being an idiot, I'm not over dramatic, I'm just acting the way any natural human being would.
4. And not only do I have very minor problems, I have a lot to offer people--if only people knew!
5. Here it is: My depression has been caused by my desire to love and be loved. Since I don't have control over the "to be loved" part, that's fine, I can accept that. But I OUGHT to have control over my loving others right? --wrong. That's why it's such a huge conflict for me.
6. I can't love people the way I want to love them because of the boundaries they put up. When I want to express my love for someone, I have to do it in a way that is socially acceptable. I have to do it in a way that that individual won't be hurt by my loving them. I even have to do it in a way that won't scare them.
7. People are often scared of me and repelled by me because I love them freely. It sucks, it's something to complain about, but I don't want it to affect my life. It works like this: people aren't used to being loved the way that I love them--they're used to people loving them conditionally and even when the conditions are right, they don't always benefit from it. But then I come along and I flat out make up excuses to love them. I make up reasons why I think they deserve a hug or why I think I should spend time with them or why I should give them a gift, or why I talk to them or help them with things.
8. Yes. I literally have to make up excuses, because people aren't comfortable with me just doing it because I want to do it.
9. For those people who aren't scared of me in the above sense, there are others who go into self-loathing because I love them. They have never been treated so well and they think they don't deserve it. They beat themselves up because they make comparisons between the way I treat them and the way they treat me, or comparisons between the way I treat them and the way they think they deserve to be treated. And suddenly they associate me with a low self-esteem.
10. Some people even go as far as to associate their low sense of self around me with my confident nature (and I think this explains why sometimes people think I'm arrogant, but I don't know for sure. )
11. For everyone else, let's call them the opportunists, they see me as a means to an end. They use me on account of my niceness.
12. They use me because I benefit them. And I'm okay with this--in fact, I prefer this to them being repelled by me (which is why I put up with such shitty friends sometimes). But I'd just as soon not have this--and I think this is the point that started my spiral into depression last week or so.
13. Spawning out of the three things that people do because I'm a loving person (put up walls and barriers because they aren't used to it and expect the other shoe to drop any second now and for there to be conditions behind it, or drifting into self-hate because they don't think they deserve my love and friendship, or straight up use me for their own gains), I boiled this down to a spectrum: On one hand I remain nice, on the other I become selfish.
14. If I continue to be nice, I should expect more of the same; people repelled by me or using me. It's a heart breaking experience to love someone who doesn't love you back, and to face the scorn of society as they question "why does he still hang around them if they treat him that way," and at times it's heart breaking to see someone use you as an excuse to hate themselves.
15. I don't like it when I am an excuse for others' pain, and I don't like facing heartbreak after heartbreak myself.
16. If I shift gears and become selfish, then I have to face the reality of isolation. I have to accept that no one is going to want to be around me and I have to face the unknown of how to meet those needs associated with loving and connecting to people--and I don't know that it is even possible.
17. I've been down both paths--I've been selfish and refused to give my love and I know it was miserable, so I left there long ago--it was miserable because not only was I not getting my needs met, but I also hated the person I had become.
18. I've been nice lately and I don't hate who I am. I hate how other people react to how I am. Which I think is improvement.
19. Sometimes the anticipation of becoming that self-centered bastard scares me into depression.
20. I do NOT want to be that self-centered bastard. So I need to lean more towards the nice side.
21. So the question becomes: how do I cope and balance a life of loving others with the obnoxious side of people putting up barriers and not letting me love them?

And that is where I need to take this so that the next battle I face, I come prepared and won't sweat bullets and hate life for being me--the unrestrained lover.

seeking understanding of self

November is the month of understanding, and I've started the month off with a quest to understand myself better. . .

I have been having some bad days over the last couple of weeks. I hit a few highs bit mostly a lot of lows. --I'm not too concerned, it will get better eventually, it always does. But, only after I do some serious work to make it better. In this case, I'm doing a lot of soul searching.

I know what I am passionate about now in life. Sometimes I just forget and then my life gets hollow and I don't approach life with the same positive mindset. I face major letdowns and let things eat at me.
It all came to a head just barely though.

I want someone to want me.

And I would give up everything for that, except I'm scared because it doesn't happen quick enough.
I take life at 90mph. It speeds by and I'm used to it and don't notice. But most people drive 25, which might actually be slower than my idle. So I have to break if I'm going to follow them, and if they follow me. They can't keep up.

Depressing, yes, but at least I can understand it now. I want you to want me, and it hurts my heart a little that you don't want me at the speed I want you.

Will

I started to write a will but decided I didn't want to include some of the people I listed in it so I quit writing it.

I figure I'll write down a few things I DO know right here, and maybe that will motivate me to finish it:


1- When I die, I want to donate my primary organs: Heart, Liver, Kidney, Lungs, and Eyes, to otherwise healthy kids (first) and then adults who have genetic defects, were wounded in a gunfight, car crash, or other abnormal disaster.
2- My spinal column, brain, skin, and any other internal organs I would like to donate to scientific research related to developing technologies that can rebuild dead or dying cells, or genetic research.
3- With anything left, I wish to be cremated and have my ashes separated and spread throughout nature--the ocean, the mountains, forests, etc. Preferably by a close friend or family member who will hike, bike, kayak, mountain climb, or ride horses to such remote places.
4- I want to have a bench built in a nature park or along a hiking trail, that can be used as a monument to my life. Inscribed on the bench I want it to have my house seal (which I designed myself) and the words "I am from the past, no one knows the future, but I tried my damnedest to live in the present."
5- Each of my two Brothers and two Sisters, and Both of my parents are entitled to take one item from my possessions of their choosing.
6- Should any women come forward claiming to be my girlfriend (however weak their claims) at the time of my death, they will be entitled to one of my possessions of their choosing.
7- My dog shall be returned to my breeder as per my contract with her, who I will entrust to either return to one of my trusted family members or friends who will give her a good home or will find a better home for her. Should any of my family or friends want her they may take it up with Regalane.
8- My car, I want to auction off and the proceeds donated to the Arbor Day Foundation because I like what they are trying to do for the world.
9- My house and any land that I own I want to be sold at auction, the opening bid at the amount I still owe on my mortgage plus any of my debts--I don't imagine it will have a hard time selling.
10- I want the rest of my possessions auctioned off with the exception of any content rights, creative rights, or rights to residuals.



At this point, I don't know what else to do with my possessions...

I know that I do not want to give my creative rights away to anyone--because I know no one who I could trust with them. All of my poems, all of my writings, my artwork, my films, my book--all of it is shit anyway, but I still don't want to give them to anyone because no one has proven themselves worthy to me.
So if they are worth anything, if what I have had to say is worth anything to anyone, I don't want them to have it because they don't deserve it.
At this point in my life, I don't even think I want any of it published once I'm dead, so if I die before it gets published then I hope it sinks to the grave with me. It's selfish, I know, and I have no excuse for it...

Please read this letter/incorporate it into my obituary:

I want to make the point that you have all treated me like shit.
Some of you have used me like a slave, enlisted me to work for you while you gained from my labor, and most often you did this by offering me the worst deals that you knew I had to take because I had no other options at the time.
Some of you have forced me into situations where I had to pay for your things, not of my own free will but out of guilt.
Some of you have lied to me and some of you have hid things me, and you should know I never believed that intentions were justifications for doing anything. When your lies made me feel bad, gave me anxiety, kept me from information that might have helped me make a good decision, then I don't give a damn about your reasoning behind it, because some of you never apologized to me.
Some of you weren't there when I needed you. I've maintained a policy that if anyone needs someone to talk to, that I would volunteer. And I did!--I did for my whole adult life. Yet when I needed to talk, some of you have blown me off.
And you know what? Ignoring me was what hurt me the most in life. I could have handled you telling me off. I could have handled you telling me that you didn't care enough about me to listen to me. I could have handled you telling me that I was an asshole who didn't deserve it. But you didn't. You didn't say anything and you let me beat myself up.

I guess that's the whole reason why I don't think anyone is worthy.

So take whats left of my money and buy up a large block of milled copper with it and drop it into the ocean.

Want to know me? Know my Cynic

[WARNING CAUTION WARNING CAUTION WARNING CAUTION:]
[This is an angry cynical angst drunk rant. Read at your own discretion...]

You know what?
I hate the way the world works.
I hate the way it fits together so neatly.
I hate that I know the consequences.
I hate that I'm responsible.
I hate that I'm not crazy and yet, I am.
i hate that I have it good when others don't
I hate how perfect my life is
because it's not perfect!
I hate that I love my life

I'm invisible
because I'm a statue
Apollo
One look
One awe
And then they're done
I blend in
to everything around

You know how many times I've heard that line?
"You're too perfect for me" ... because "I'm not used to guys like you"
Fuck my Life!
You might think I'm perfect
but I'm choosing you right now
I'm living right now
I'm with you
right now.
And it kills me every time

I've been the secret lover
I've been the one you hate
I've been your best friend for years
and you'd still walk away
I've been hurt
I keep bouncing back
And you know what?
I have no one to turn to
no one to tell how I feel
no one to listen to
no one to take care of
except myself.

I'm not selfish
I'm tender
And we don't do well in the sun
all alone.
I might look like a cactus
but I'm not prickly
I'm no porcupine
I won't bite!

If I can't have you for myself
I want you as a friend, best
But please don't walk
Don't leave
When everything is so good

Losing an Uphill Battle && Why I write

I suppose it's time for me to make a statement regarding my life:

I have been fighting an uphill, underdog battle for many years--perhaps my whole life. As well as I can tell, I do not see any correlations between my upbringing and this battle, though my mind is quite fantastical and it could be so repressed that I have yet to dig it up.

The thing I have always fought with is a desire for companionship. As a toddler, I drowned in the west jordan pool because I wanted to be among the companionship of my older sister and threw my current capabilities out the window to do so and ventured into the deeper end of the pool. I can recall doing ANYTHING to be accepted by the kids at my baby sitter Annette's house. And in Elementary, I recall a couple of times where I went inside to cry at my desk because the other children didn't want me to play with them. Later, in my final year at my elementary school, I remember trying my damnedest to fit in with the cool kids and finally (at least as my perception remembers) being accepted in a small segment of the popular group.
And then I moved away and threw all of that away.
At my new school I struggled to fit in in the last couple months of the school year--the last couple of months of elementary even. And then in Jr. High I struggled some more with some of the shittiest friends a boy could have. Finally, in High school things leveled out for me and I had a few close, respectable friends, though I don't understand why or how. When high school was ending and everyone was going separate ways and I kind of got the impression that my friends didn't want me coming around unless I was fully committed to them and their lifestyle (and at the time, I wasn't--I had a few brainwashings to overcome that prevented me from fully committing to them).
By college, I was no better or worse than before. I was new. I was different. And I don't know if I never learned to make friends and be popular or if I have never been given the opportunity (I would think the latter, because I DO have a few very good friends...keyword "few").
Finally, as an adult, I entered the workforce, bought a house, bought a dog, bought a new car, have a few grandiose experiences under my belt and a head full of knowledge, a pocket full of cash, and a dreaming mind. Yet, I have no friends. I fit in with no one. Even my family is foreign to me.


I'm different. I know this. I refuse to suck up to anyone, I refuse to be a slave for anyone, I refuse to bear all of the risks, I refuse to share much of my life because I value my freedom and independence--it keeps me happy--more than I value other people. When I invest in someone else, I'm all in. Yet, I get the impression that "all in" is the worst public policy for this day and age. My generation is the generation of safety and security--or so experts say. They invest small and expect large, or they invest small, fidget around and let the wind toss them here and there and then after much pressure they agree to invest more or back away.

The realization I have made recently is:
I have no friends because I refuse to give up my beliefs. I believe in freedom. I believe in fairness. I believe in equal respect. In fact, I believe in equality to such an extreme that it harms me, because I see strangers as my equal: I believe that other people are like me, that they aren't shady, they are intelligent, I trust that others are benevolent and understanding and that their main goals in life are to be happy. And yet, that is not so. Everyone I know has two faces, myself included--I have the face that you see now, that is open and honest, and I have the face that wants so badly to have attention and be popular and famous and looked up to and respected and included.
But I cannot have that. I cannot be famous and respected and have the amount of attention that I need in a day/week/month/year. I cannot even have the attention of just one person or the full respect of one person. And I realize now that the reason I can't have that is because I refuse to give up my beliefs. I refuse to believe that we aren't all equals--men, women, regardless of skin color, regardless of age, regardless of religion. I refuse to believe that we aren't all equals working towards the same things. I refuse to believe that we aren't all at the same level of confidence and motivation, that we don't all work the same way internally or that we aren't all going through the same general things.

They say that freedom never was free. That equality never was free. And that someone had to die for my freedom. Well. I suppose the person who has to die for MY freedom is myself. The person who has to die for my beliefs is Me. So I'm going to die in a sense. I'm going to give up that part of me that I have no control over, that part of me that is casing me so much problems. The part that says: I WANT your friendship, I WANT people in my life, I WANT respect and popularity and all that. No. From here on out all I care about is me and my freedom. I'll do what I want, when I want where I want say what I want and call out anyone I want. I'm no longer going to present any fake part of myself --not that I do anyway--but now I'm not going to care if people are disappointed in me, if people say stupid shit to guilt me into things, or have critical opinions of me. I don't get a damn. The person who did give a damn about what society cares about, the person who cared about being a part of society. He died so that I could live freely.

So Fuck You all (not you...because you're reading this) but fuck everyone else and their moms.

In fact, I'll be honest here. The main reason I write is because I want to be heard, because no one in the real world gives a shit about what I say. No one gives a shit about what I do. They won't even give me negative attention anymore. Am I the boy who cries wolf? Who knows. But I do know that a handful of people read my blog--a handful or less. Or maybe it' sjust one other person out there who comes back several times. I don't know. But there ARE people who read this blog. And there are people who read my other blogs.

So fuck the world of everyone else. I don't care anymore. I just want to live alone, in peace, and people better contribute to my life and be nice or just stay out of my way.

Chats with Courtney: Leadership vs Alphas

Courtney came over to see my new puppy and here is my recount of what we talked about:

Courtney: You have an adorable puppy! Can I have her?
Kyle: Hah, no.
C: She's really obedient for only 10 weeks.
K: Definitely. I've been working with her a lot, plus she's a smart dog. My breeder gave me a bunch of articles and I've read a bunch of books in preparation.
C: Whatever you're doing, she's learning! --How's your book coming?
K: It's great.--I told you I'm finished with a first draft, right?--a very rough draft.
C: Ya, I heard. What's it about again?
K: Communication, Relationships, and Conflict Management.
C: You sound like you have that line memorized.
K: I do. It's the best way to describe the book. It's mostly about relationships and how to have great relationships in these modern times, but I cover a lot of topics like love, marriage, life, peace, happiness, values, the human condition, leadership--
C: I'm sure it'll be great when it's finished. Can you give me an example of anything you talk about?
K: Not off the top of my head--like, I don't have any of it memorized and just as well with how much revision I need to do--it's easier to kill it if I need to get rid of it because I'm not so attached...but, maybe I'll bring this up: I talk about how communication is really what makes a great leader and that learning the skills and theory that I present in the book is going to also make you a good leader. However, reading the books I have on dogs I don't think people really understand the concept of a leader...
C: How so?
K: Well, a few of the books and articles I've read about dogs directly use the term "leader" but they're referring to the pack leader--obviously--and of course they aren't going to talk about what a real leader is because to be a leader of humans is different from that of a dogs.
C: Okay..and your point is? --I mean, you're reading about dogs not human leadership.
K: Yes, but I've noticed something interesting about people and dogs--basically, you can apply the same principles to humans as you do dogs.
C: Kyle, I don't mean to be rude, but you're basically saying to treat people like dogs.
K: I am.
C: ...like animals.
K: Yes.
C: That seems beneath the human race, but go on.
K: I honestly think that's what 99% of our present leaders do, and that's why it's hard to find a great leader.
C: Please explain...
K: The key thread that I see from reading as many books about both topics: dogs and leadership, is that people want to be treated like dogs. They don't want to think for themselves, they just want to be taken care of like a dog is taken care of by its master.
C: ...I'm with you so far...
K: ...Then there is the dominance thing.
C: Dominance? --like...people want to be dominated?
K: --in a sense, yes! See, dogs want to have a clear understanding of their place in the hierarchy. It makes them less stressed because if they think they are above a human, they have to maintain order in the pack and that means fighting against the human will.--dogs aren't naturally aggressive, they get that way when they think it's their only option in order to maintain discipline.
C: Equate that in human terms...what makes you think humans are this way?
K: Humans don't want to be leaders, but when the leaders don't establish themselves in a way that makes them appear a leader--or appear the alpha--then the underlings think it is their responsibility to get aggressive--not always physically aggressive, because our physical prowess isn't our greatest attribute, but verbally.
C: Ahhh. I see.--
K: --there's more: I read that dogs assume the leader--the alpha--holds eye contact the longest, enters and exists the room first and expects the pack to follow, and doesn't give anything unless they get something from the pack first because it helps maintain their alpha status.--reminds me a lot of religious leaders, or the guys that girls want to be with.
C: Hahahahhahahha.
K: Yes, it's humorous but, don't you see the truth of it?
C: Maybe a little. I mean I see a lot of girls act crazy over a guy who treats them like a puppy...
K: --That's not real leadership. It's alpha leadership but it's not legitimate and is more a form of manipulation than leadership.
C: Ok, I agree. I think people can be a little like dogs to their leaders and when the leader is bad the dog--the individual is undisciplined as well. --This is a very interesting topic that maybe we could talk about some other time and make it on your blog?
K: Absolutely!